Gallery Place to Metro Center – The Problem

The key issue that has yet to be addresses is the impact construction would have on service. Adding some sort of retail to the mix would effectively double a year-long construction project. Would users be willing to put up with these sorts of inevitable delays? And what sort of tenants would occupy the space? More national chains are probably the only ones who can affort the exhorbitant taxes the Council is levying.

A tunnel between the two Farragut Stations, and one between Metro Center & GP would be ideal. Much like bench seating on metro trains, this is most like the inevitable direction metro will have to take to relieve congestion and make system use easier.

The big question is how long will it take to get to the point of implementing those changes?

London is a great example of a city that has numerous underground pedestrian connections between train lines. It works well for them- and tons of people actually use those tunnels.

I agree w/ columbo- a 2nd Farragut tunnel would be ideal.

Make it even sweeter by installing moving sidewalks in pedestrian tunnels. I would always take said tunnel if I knew my options were 3-5 minutes via train, or 5-7 minutes via foot b/n the two stations.

ML: After the way the escalators break down, you want moving walkways? I say lets walk the 2 or 3 blocks between stations, underground.

While we’re at it, lets rip out some of those constantly broken escalators, especially the ones that are not very deep (12 & G metro center entrance) and replace them with stairs.

I’m probably in the minority with that second thought. Maybe the first one too.

Heck yeah I want moving sidewalks. After all a broken moving sidewalk isn’t any different than a non-moving sidewalk, especially if they get fixed on off hours (add that to the plan).

I would love to be able to walk between GP & MC. Every time I stand on the platform and look into the tunnel – and literally see into the next station – I think, “Why can’t we just walk?”

(If I start out aboveground, I usually do just walk – e.g., if I’m going to Hecht’s/Macy’s from home.)

I second columbo and Clara Barton Dweller – (1) a Farragut connection makes tons of sense, especially since the two stations don’t connect by rail and (2) how frustrating is it to SEE the train you just missed sitting 500 feet away at the next station, while you wait 8 minutes for the next train. As far as the moving sidewalks, I wonder if the frustration of gaggles of tourists clogging them up would moot their usefulness.

The last thing we need (not that Metro could even afford to maintain them) is moving walkways. They can barely keep 70% of the existing escalators in operation, plus its the single largest reason why WMATA operates in the red year in and year out. Plus we have plenty of fat people in this city… they can stand to walk 500 feet.

i’ve always been frustrasted that the wmata powers that be haven’t approved the idea of in-station retail of some sort. i know the aesthetics police on the various boards that “protect” the regions look and prestige frown upon any alterations to even the smallest issues, like design of the metro system. there was even a fight to get station names put on the walls of stations because that didn’t fit into the original vision of the architecture. forget that riders couldn’t tell which station they were pulling into.

as for pedestrian tunnels, i think they make sense. cotoe should push for them now as the pq neighborhood and old convention center site are still in flux and can be bothered for another construction project without too much disruption.

And what about those people who are disabled? Put in the walkways and make the lazy and fat Metro employees wake up and fix them if they break down.

The WMATA employees don’t fix the broken down escalators… they pay contractors who price guage them and consistently miss deadlines.

If the moving walkways are for disabled individuals, one wonders how disabled indivuals go anywhere given that 99.9999999% of DC doesnt have moving walkways.

First, it seems ridiculous that we are arguing about moving walkways at this point (it seems a little pre-mature and besides the point right?) Next, even assuming that the walkways wouldn’t be constantly broken, expensive, and congested (not that the assumption is remotely realistic), I think it would be easier to convince retail to open stores underground without the possibility of their customers being quickly propelled past their front doors. Just a thought.

This whole thread has been completely ridiculous. Building the tunnels would be an absolute nightmare for an already over- congested area that is peaking with development. Whoever mentioned London obviously hasn’t researched how long those tunnels have been in place.

Retail sounds intriging. Although mostly what I’m interested in when I ride the metro is a beverage of some sort, maybe a snack, and also a paper or magazine. But snacks and drinks are currently prohibited on the Metro, so would it fly as a business model?

What sort of retail would work?

I agree, retail might not work so well below ground in the subway stations. Typically you expect refreshments in that kind of environment, which are prohibited on Metro. Maybe a newstand would work. People certainly aren’t going down into the Metro station to buy clothes or furniture, a little gift shop don’t tend to do much business anywhere. I don’t think that many reailers would be interested. If you look at other underground retail areas around DC, they seem troubled (L’enfant, Crystal City Underground, that sometimes mentioned Dupont underground that nobody wants to open invest in, and the Pentagon underground shopping area, which is no longer open to the general public.

I love the idea of the walkway, but not the retail part. I think we would be should focused on getting the above ground store fronts in the PQ area filled before we talk about underground retail.

thanks for all the comments.

on retail, I wouldn’t envision furniture or clothing stores underground. I envision a news stand or a coffee shop. drinks and food are allowed on the subway…you just can’t be consuming them (including open containers). that said, it might be too much of a temptation to carry that newly purchased coffee on the train.

on a Farragut tunnel, a great idea – this would create another ‘Metro Center’ further up the line, but you’d need to look at human traffic patterns to figure out how many people would use such a tunnel.

on construction, no better time than the present. waiting won’t make construction easier. while you’re ripping up asphalt and boring underground, I’d almost venture to go for extending the tunnel to the old convention center site to facilitate working, shopping and living at the to-be-redeveloped site. it might boost the vitality of a vibrant downtown core, if there is the political will and need.

Retail space would be good for the future, since Metro will be removing the carpets and may allow drinking on the trains. Convenience retail makes sense, I’ve been pissed underground waiting 12 minutes for the next train and thirsty at the same time. It’s not just London either, NYC, Tokyo, every major urban subway system. This type of expansion (along with more metro lines) makes total sense.

columbo, the elevators are for those of us in wheelchairs. and are mandated by law. they need to stay. but thanks for the wonderful suggestion

Anon – no one said anything about the ELEVATORS which serve a valuable purpose. Columbo suggested removing short ESCALATORS. These are useless to people in wheelchairs and unnecessary for the rest of us.

Absolutely tunnels are needed at both MC/GP and the Farragut stations. The system is only going to get more congested; the longer this is postponed, the greater the inconvenience will be. Leave retail and moving walkways out of it, let’s get the tunnels dug and alleviate the congestion first.

Again- Coffee, sodas, snacks – definitely the best retail option for the subway. WOULD make total sense if it were not in direct opposition to Metro rules. If you want to buy a drink in the station because you have to wait 12 minutes and you’re thirsty, what would be more torturous than being allowed to buy it and NOT drink it for the entire trip? Makes no sense to me. Given the troubles Metro has encountered trying to enforce these rules, I can’t imagine they would inflict this challenge upon their station personnel.

If they change the rules, then definitely add that retail. I will be buying. But these things would not be hard to add to the station add a later date if and when the rules are changed. But I have to add, I personally would like to see our subways stay clean, even if the carpet goes away (and I hope it does).

Columbo, the idea of tearing out the shorter escaltors as a cost saving was considered at metro board meeting earlier this year and rejected.

I’m not sure I have great faith in the city government for choosing businesses for underground locations: the latest idea floated for Dupont underground is to relocate some or the strip clubs dislocated by the baseball stadium.

I hope that businesses proposed for GP-metro or Farragut tunnels would have extensive community imput.
http://www.nbc4.com/news/13695595/detail.html

Eating and drinking on the subway? It would not be clean, no matter what the surface. It isn’t allowed now and there is plenty of evidence of both being consumed on the metro. If people aren’t going to take their newspapers with them, then why would the care about leaving their food and drink behind.

It is my understanding that when WMTA sells the building on 5th street, that these funds may be allocated for a tunnel between Gallery Place and Metro center.

I think the addition of linking the system with the Convention center is the best idea yet. That would certainly entice conventions to the area, making it easy to commute to hotels and restaurants.

The longest links of subway that I have experienced is in Paris. They are fantastic. They get you around busy streets and the elements. Very quick and often dotted with great muscians underground.

pqresident: morning metro commutes where everyone is piling into the trains already isn’t exactly pleasant. I would hate a scenario where suddenly half of the Metro riders sardined in with me are also holding a hot cup of coffee. There would be hundreds on third degree burns on day one alone.

Drinks and food are allowed for strictly carrying on, but I rarely see folks with them, and never hot coffee. Mostly people with a coke or bottled water. Or folks with groceries bags on the way home. . . hey waitaminute! That’s the solution to the retail we need underground!!!

1) Underground tunnels are the norm in Dallas (from wince I hail) and they have killed any chance for street level retail and a vibrant downtown. Most people would rather not sweat in Dallas and don’t shop at street level, why would DC be any different?

2) A Metro Center connection would only benefit people traveling from the VA Orange line to or from the Green line north of Chinatown. Doesn’t sound like a bang for my buck.

3) The Convention Center HAS a Metro station!

Anon underestimates who would benefit from a tunnel. I travel from MVS (yellow/green) to Farragut North daily. The most congested spot on Metro has to be the red line between GP and MC because everyone coming in on the green line transfers to red at GP but almost no one gets off until Metro Center.

If there were a tunnel I would happily bypass the crush and walk to Metro Center where I could actually board a red train (or better yet transfer to orange/blue and go to Farragut West which would be closer to my destination anyway).