5th And Eye Receives Seven Proposals

Walnut’s proposal is included in the JBG proposal.

How about a beautiful little (non-drug) park? We can use all the green space we can get. I can dream, can’t I?

That would be great — real green space. But given that this is DC property, I believe that the City owes the folks who have invested in the area (the residents) some amenities. Awarding the property to a developer without providing much, much, much needed neighborhood services and retail would simply be a crime against our area. With the location of the Safeway, how about making the 900 block of 5th Street a place where we can run errands and see our neighbors. We don’t need to inflict 3 a.m. drunken shouting matches on residents if it isn’t here already. Let’s do some REAL urban planning.

It’s exciting to see these plans! I can’t wait to look at them a bit closer.

This post also brings up an ancillary question: does anyone know if Walnut’s plans for its lofts are still on the table? Their page for the plans says a 164 unit MUD with retail space, with ground broken in 2007, and that it’s currently in the design phase. Well, 2007 is here and gone, with no ground broken (that I can see), and the market they were building into is here and gone as well…

–MLB

JBG has included the Walnut site in their proposal for 5th and Eye. I would assume that they are not starting anything until that process is over.

Anything commercial or cafe/restaurant related would be great. DHS employees next door would keep it busy during the workday and residents would patronize in the evening.

Green space is nice, but there are already two parks (between I and Mass east of 5th, and the entire block between 5th and 6th on the south side of Mass) in the vicinity. And those are already overrun by the homeless.

I’ll concede that the House of Blues or a McFadden’s style bar isn’t going to float in a residential neighborhood. We do need some local hotspot whether it be a restaurant or cafe. I’m also not averse to a small jazz club. These aren’t the type of establishments that “meatheads” emerge from at 3AM yelling and screaming. Do people really want this area to be 15 blocks of highrises, Quiznos and dry cleaners? I sure don’t.

By the way, has anyone heard what retail is going into the first floor of the DuMont?

As the view directly out of my living room is of this lot, I sincerely hope that this development is “neighborhhood friendly”. I think first floor retail with cafes, a book shop, etc. would be great! I am quite afraid of having a 14 story building 30 feet outside my window! Does anyone know what building heights these proposals are suggesting?

Building will be as tall as all the others. I don’t think clubs of any type directly next to housing works. If Fourth and Eye wants a neighborhood hot spot, put it next to his home.

Expect it to be as high as the building you’re in…

Anyone who thinks they are buying a “view” when they buy next to an empty lot in downtown DC is very mistaken and naive. If there were permanent views, you would be paying much, much, more for your place. Personally, they can’t fill up that open-air drug market they call the vacant homes, parking lots and empty lots in the Triangle fast enough.

Let’s just make sure that the City does something that actually benefits the citizens in this neighborhood.

To the anti-hotspot fellow: This is downtown city living. I don’t how anyone could have the expectation that absolutely no restaurant or cafe venues be located across the street from a residential building.

As for the small jazz club, I’m certainly not sold that it would be good idea but I personally wouldn’t rule it out at this point. This isn’t going to be a club they stick in a rowhouse that wasn’t built for this intended use. Presumably since it’s new construction it would have the right amount of dedicated parking and sound proofing. I think it’s at least worth reserving judgment on until more facts are shared rather than reading the word ‘club’ and getting emotional about it.

“To the anti-hotspot fellow”

LOL. I think that’s more than one person on here and I think your response more than sums up my feelings about living in the city. It’s all about diversity, vibrancy, and the ability to have it all right at your doorstep. Urban sounds included!

Speaking of retail development – I know what’s NOT coming to 7th & D anytime soon, but according to the Washington Business Journal, is already slated for the National Harbor, which doesn’t even have residents yet:

“Peterson is close to signing a gourmet grocery — Menick declined to identify it — and will try to secure a dry cleaner, urgent care facility and day-care center to serve National Harbor residents.”

I’m interested to see who that grocer is.

I would love to see a small jazz / blues club there. We need somewhere to go to hear live music!!!

I heard that the House of Blues may go near the new Nationals stadium.

nice article in NYT this weekend on urban architecture. The triangle needs a signature bldg or at least something different than the same old boxes (see DCMUD discussion).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/arts/design/23ouro.html?em&ex=1206504000&en=3321e281df7d7924&ei=5087
I like some of the buildings but the writer says they may be a little pretentious. I will take pretentious over boring-lets not do DC bland on every block.

I am a fan of the boutique hotel idea. I think having a ground floor piano/jazz bar or something would satisfy all of those concerned. Also, there is a desperate need for hotel space within walking distance of the convention center.

I generally think most people are too sensitive to noise issues. However, in this case the city has invited comment so it should be good for residents.

The city has done some urban planning for the Triangle area. Below is a link to a portion of the city’s Mount Vernon Triangle Action Agenda, which came out a couple of years ago. It deals specifically with this lot and the 5th St. retail corridor.

http://tinyurl.com/2yovot

Yeah I’m pretty sure that most of that isn’t being followed. 555 Mass has no retail and ground level units and I’m wondering what the cultural component to any of these projects is… the Busboys & poets??

For those of you interested in the Triangle there are several neighborhood resources and forums such as the Mount Vernon Square Neighborhood Ass’n and the Triangle blog found at:

http://lifein.mountvernonsquare.org/
and
http://mvtriangle.blogspot.com

yeah, you are right. According to the plan 555 Mass should have had retail but it doesn’t. I’d like to understand how they get off not following the plan? Is it only developers who bought their land from the city that have to follow such a plan? Or is the plan all B.S. and once these companies get the zoning they want they’ll cut corners however they desire?

It hasn’t been folowed to the T but that’s the point. The city/developers did a good job getting a diverse group of retailers into the city vista site and they should stick with the vision of making 5th St. a vibrant corridor. I’m a nearby resident and I love the idea of a small live music venue and that possibility shouldn’t be precluded. I hope there will be mutliple retail and entertainment options along 5th.

Wow, I just inquired with DuMont and found out that their ground floor will not have retail. When I visited Madrigal Lofts I asked their sales office why the DuMont was bricked up everywhere but the first floor where the metal studs where still exposed. They suggested it was because retail would be going in there. Now I find out that was misinformation. I’m disappointed on several fronts: 1) i was given misinformation 2) I trusted that info 3) How the hell is the city letting a development of 500+ units contribute no amenities to the community? 4) All the master plans I’ve been reading for the Triangle beyond what CityVista is contributing is starting to seem like hogwash. I guess I’m lucky I’m on the edge of Penn Quarter because I’m starting to feel like they are going to let the Triangle be another Crystal City…

#22: Yes, the Dumont was never going to have ground floor retail. The Sonata and Madrigal Lofts had no retail built in to the plans either.

Other than CityVista, it didn’t look like ground floor retail was ever planned for the residential buildings.

*However*, if you look at the office buildings that will be going up in the triangle, there is plenty of retail space being created.

It looks like the plan was to have people move in first, then add retail second.

So far, first floor retail planned for:
- 300 K St (Mount Vernon Place Office Building)
- 455 Mass Ave (Penzance Companies Office Building)

Gpliving:

There’s also 600 Mass Ave… http://pqliving.com/?p=600

What about the existing retail space which isn’t being used? I’m specifically referring to the space next to the CVS in 400 Mass Ave, and the ground level retail space in Mass Court? I’ve lived in this area for 3 years and both of those spaces have been vacant with “for lease” signs up the entire time.

#23

The link in #18 delivers you to a PDF document where DC Planning shows they clearly intended for all of 5th street to have retail the entire distance from NY Ave to Mass Ave. Obviously 555 Mass is an offender to this plan. But if you scan the images carefully in the document even the tip of the Dumont block at Mass, Eye and 5th was planned for a cafe with a small amount of outdoor space at the corner.

I just don’t like the precedent that was set with seeing this buildings ignore the plan for what 5th Street was supposed to be. Being new to DC I don’t understand how that occurs and what prevents the office buildings from going cutting the retail out of their projects…

my understanding of all those master plans is that unless DC owns the land or cuts a deal with/forms a development corporation that will adhere to the plan, keeping to the plan is voluntary. DC does own the infrastructure so they can make the roads and sidewalks adhere to the plan. sometimes DC owns the parks, sometimes the NPS owns the parks so that literally becomes a Federal exercise.

the linked plan uses the words recommendations and goals…there’s a lot of wiggle room between recommendations and implementation.

what I am most happy about wrt/ to 5th and Eye is that there is a public-private process going on that will consider public input instead of ramrodding a solution. the fact that the govt. owns the land and is interested in public input ensures that the public-private process takes place in a (presumably) fair and orderly manner. now that’s the way it ought to be!

#28
I agree that DC has more leverage when they owned the land before it was sold to the developer. But I would have thought D.C. still had enough stroke through tax abatements and zoning to have their vision seen through a little better than this.

#26: I am in agreement that 555 Mass violates the retail plan of 5th street, but everything else looks good. The NE corner of 5th & I is the site that was just bid on by 7 companies. I believe a lot of those bids had a 1st floor retail component.

The SE corner of 5th & I (with Mass on the south) is currently a small residential building, but between Dumont and that residential piece is 455 Mass – which will have retail. That is the “cafe seating” label on page 6’s diagram.

Correction: There will be retail on the corner of 4th and Mass in the Dumont East. Dumont West will not have any retail (The larger more orange building) The reason why the building isn’t bricked on the ground floor yet is for better access to materials into the building. Just because it looks done on the outside doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot of stuff going on inside!

And I can guarantee that I’m right because I have the construction set in my living room The people at the Dumont most likely didn’t say much because they are still trying to keep under wraps the details of the east building which is not yet for sale.

#26, #29:

As per Page 11 of the Mount Vernon Triangle Action Agenda (http://tiny.cc/XpR4r):

* Projected land use diagrams are based upon discussions with property owners and stated public sector objectives. Final land use will be determined by zoning and combined-lot regulations and through a continuing dialogue between market forces and strategic public investments and incentives.

Also, if you refer to the Summary of Development Activity in the Mount Vernon Triangle Area found in page 7, you will see that there was no commercial space projected for Hampton Inn/555 mass…

What happens to the DC master plan? A developer slips a few thousand bucks to a few city councilmen & voila, he can do whatever he wants. Vacant buildings & vacant storefronts? PQ, we are! In about twenty years things will be “normal”.
I’d like to see a police substation in the triangle…& maybe another police substation where the McDonalds is on Seventh Street. Maybe then even the lazy DC cops will make an arrest or two as they walk to & from the “office” but then again, probably not, too much paperwork.

Theres a police station directly adjacent to the triangle isn’t there? Isn’t that what that ugly 1950’s suburban looking brick house thing is?

That little block of 5th Street already has a liquor store that sells single serves, a women’s homeless shelter, a full nudity strip club, vacant buildings and a recently closed crack house. And folks are criticizing the people who live and have invested on that street for wanting something that serves them?? Enough already. This is not the last lot in downtown DC. Let’s put something on that block that works for the folks that actually live there every day and give them a break. They deal with and have dealt with enough.

I think Joan’s comments are right on the money! Our friends in PQ don’t see the drug deals and hear the screaming that occurs in front of this vacant lot that we are all discussing. At this point, I don’t care what goes there as long as it helps to make this a more peaceful street.

I think the “anything is better than what we have now” mentality is a bad one. That’s probably why most of DC development is so uninspired.

- future resident of 4th and eye who would likes single serves.

I couldn’t agree more with Joan and Mike.

Here’s what we need in PQ – a Bum Bot!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/28/MNEJVRI19.DTL
It’s from Atlanta – a robot that warns criminals & bums that it is filming them & that they need to move on, & if they don’t move on, it sprays them with cold water.

In todays Washington Post Business Section regarding developer R. Donahue Peebles:

“Next week, he plans to make a presentation on a new luxury hotel that he wants to build on a lot he bought at Fifth and Eye streets NW. There will be a subterranean nightclub, so as not to disturb the neighbors at 555 Massachusetts Ave. On the first floor will be a high-end, glass-walled restaurant named after Peebles’s wife. A coffee shop will serve guests and the community. ‘D.C. is ready for something a little more chic, a little more sophisticated,’ Peebles said.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/30/AR2008033001722.html

A luxury hotel across from the House of Ruth does scream of chic-ness and sophisication.