RSS FeedSound Off: Relocation Of DC To NYC Bus Loading Zones
Many readers wrote in last week to let us know about how DDOT has relocated, or rather officially located, a loading zone for the various Chinatown buses, like DC2NY and BoltBus. The zone is designated as 10th & D St SW (near L’Enfant Plaza).
DDOT claims that the buses are congesting streets, disrupting transit and causing a safety hazard for pedestrians.
Readers apparently have agreed with DDOT’s assessment and have sounded off about excessive bus idling as well as the loading and unloading during rush hour.
So, now DDOT has provided a solution by forcing buses to L’Enfant or else face a $1500 fine. We’re already hearing rumblings about the location of the loading zone far away from where any residents live. But, we don’t know if any particular block in this city was jumping up and down to be designated as a bus depot. Sound off!
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Comments
that desolate area is a terrible area for people to be dropped off late at night. Tourists loaded down with luggage with nothing within walking distance in an empty streetscape sure is an opportunity for crime. Welcome to Wasington!!
to me, Union Station is a more sensible intermodal switching point. bus, subway, commuter rail and regular rail all in one handy spot. you can even pick up a Duck boat if you like! Columbus Circle might need to be rerigged if they were to load/drop off there.
not that it is the best, but tourists are already dropped off at L’Enfant Plaza on D St, SW, by the 5A bus from Dulles. I don’t know the statistics but my impression is that off hours the area is desolate of people generally, criminals included. I imagine Metro’s thinking is that most would get on the subway which is the purpose of the 5A bus – airport to bus to subway. maybe DDOT has a similar thought pattern (intercity bus to subway) and L’Enfant was the only place they could whip up in short order. 11th & G isn’t designed to be an impromptu bus terminal for three different bus lines, however convenient it may be.
Agree entirely with #3/PQResident. Why they don’t go to Union Station is a mystery, unless i guess the bus operators might have to actually pay for the space there- A novel idea.
I have to say – if this actually sticks – regardless of what you think about the 5th/D location, I am shocked/impressed that DDOT actually did something about an issue in a timely manner without 3 years of planning studies and committee meetings.
Friends,
Union Station seems to be set up for such an intermodal convenience, and probably received lots of funds for its intermodel suitability. It is possible someone’s agenda other than public covenience, safety, and necessity, have lead to the l’enfant designation. Inconvenient for lots? Yes, but that might be by design. The question is who does not want such a service where it makes sense? One hopes it’s not an entity whose account is overflowing with intermodal money. Thanks. Bill
I don’t think the choice of L’Enfant versus Union Station was anything sinister. L’Enfant is serviced directly by 4 metro lines while Union Station has only the Red line. I think the inter-city bus lines need the best linkage/synergy with Metrorail. Who’s going to bus from NYC-to-DC to transfer to Amtrak or commuter rail? That usage pattern linkage isn’t a strong one.
Rumors of drug traffic-ing aside, this is sure to be a huge blow to these chinatown bus businesses which have their physical offices located in chinatown. But the larger issue for me is yet another double standard. All weekend long i watched HUGE buses come sit n go from 6th & M transporting church parishioners, idling, double parking… Now i dont have a problem with this, indeed i am happy UHOP is bussing people as it alleviates parking & congestion. And hey the chinatown buses do the same! like carpooling on a large scale. But why are these particular buses only targeted for the move to SW? By the same logic shouldnt the UHOP buses drop off people at L’enfant & make em take the metro? Something tells me this wont go over so well & we end up with unequal bus treatment. IMHO perhaps it is better to institute common sense restrictions like prohibiting pick ups & drop offs at certain times…and actually ENFORCE the laws like no double parking, blocking crosswalks, no idling, etc…
Also I have to say back in the day i used to take a whole lot of greyhoud & peter pan buses. I am NOT a fan of central bus depots, they are nasty funky places. I dont know why, but every city is the same. The street loading model seems so much safer & more convenient.
One more thing. is this a done deal? was there legislation? did the ANCs ever weigh in??
Don’t forget that there is a Metro Station at L’Enfant Plaza as well that connects to the Orange, Blue, Yellow, and Green lines (3 more than just the Red Line at Union Station). There is also a VRE station there as well. I don’t see how this is any less convenient than the old location (and is a lot MORE convenient than the current location of the Greyhound terminal North of Union Station).
Well, it’s about time that DDOT laid down the law, these bus companies are operating like a bunch of gypsies picking up and dropping off people in the street. Other major cities (Boston, Philly…soon NYC) have forced the gypsies (Chinese, Hasidics, and others) to use South Station, Market St. station, or the Port Authority Bus Terminal like every other bus line. So, Union Station would be the ideal location for this, but the actual DC bus station is only 1.5 blocks from Union Station and closer to New York Ave. than any other station…maybe some genius at DDOT would relocate all bus departures/arrivals from the real bus station!
Heh, I wondered if this will ever happen. I had noticed that the buses to Boston all seem to drop off at South Station and I figured that Boston had cracked down on these cheap buses and forced all of them to go there.
I wonder if NYC is next and will force the buses into the Port Authority bus terminal…
Interesting comments. I’m against impromptu bus terminals, and agree with #4 that DDOT’s quick action is rather impressive. (Although worth noting that people have been complaining about these buses in Chinatown for years, but it seems the 10th & G “stop” finally broke the camel’s back.) But Bill (#5) raises a good point too, that this somewhat inconvenient location may be the result of some nefarious dealing from transportation companies that operate out of Union Station. It would be a shame if the only time we see quick action from the DC government is when corporate protectionist interests are at work.
#7 raises an interesting point. Not totally on topic, but I am always amazed at how anything even remotely associated with a church is totally off limits and not subject to enforcement.
Mrs. LiveAndWork and I usually drive to Trader Joes for groceries on Sunday mornings around 9am and we go up 11th and turn left on K. There are always cars parked all over the place, including illegally taking up one whole lane of traffic on northbound 11th street.
Granted, there is not much else going on on Sunday mornings, so its not really incoveniencing anyone that much, but we always joke that if you are going to church you OF COURSE are exempt from parking tickets….
I seem to recall the city trying to fight this issue a couple of years ago and they gave up after a lot of complaining.
Well, DDOT just killed of another important industry. 10th and D is a no-man’s land and a poor place or any commerce. Thanks a million, city with no vision.
#7 You’re correct about the Chinese drug trade via the Chinatown buses, not all of them, but its a problem. The Chinese buses are operated well below traditional costs to maintain a proper service (ie no maintenance, driver training.
I have to disagree with you about Central Bus Depots though, they are much safer and organized than curbside pickups. The bus station in DC, Philly, NYC, and Boston all have police officers on duty at all times.
I don’t think it’s a horrible spot. In addition to 4 subway lines and VRE, the Circulator Bus also stops just a couple blocks away. Looking out into the future, a few blocks away will be the redeveloped Southwest Waterfront and possibly water taxi service.
I already posted on a few other blogs about this, but I might as well weigh in here too. I agree that there should be a centralized location where buses can stop and not block traffic near Gallery Place, but L’Enfant Plaza is not it. Yes, several Metro lines run through it, but its otherwise completely dead and desolate. Is this really the first impression we want to give to vistors coming to DC by bus? Isn’t it bad enough that the first thing visitors coming by car see is New York Ave NE? Don’t we have some kind of tourism commission here in DC that should weigh in on this? I can’t imagine they’d be pleased.
The other issue here is DDOT unilaterally making this decision without open meetings where the public can weigh in. From earlier comments, it seems that many of you are pleased that DDOT was able to make a snap decision without a lot of putzing around. I agree that something like this needen’t be deliberated on forever, but isn’t at least ONE public meeting for such a major decision in order? Me’thinks that if DDOT decided to put a new highway through PQ without holding public meetings first, a few of you might be a tad upset.
Just my 2 cents.
Almost forgot- someone on Greater Greater Washington blog had what I think is a brilliant suggestion: Use the Old Convention Center site parking lot as a temporary bus depot. They’re not breaking ground on that site for at least a year; this would at least give us time to sort out a permanent location for the Chinatown buses.
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=985#comments
I guess my point on DDOT taking quick action was that they responded to a problem and put a stop to a business that was just taking traffic matters into its owns hands (yes, i know the Chinatown busses have been an issue for a long time, but this seemed to reach a tipping point).
I am all for some other option – Convention Center sounds like a good one – but the point being that they need to do it the right way, actually get approval and god-forbid PAY for the space and infrastructure they use up, not just start using public streets as bus stops wherever they see fit.
Pushing them over to L’Enfant is a way to force the companies to work through the system (however broken it is) if they want to propose an alternate solution.
If DDOT wants to make these unconventional transportation services appear to have some mild sense of organization, they could easily build a temporary building from construction trailers at the old convention center site, its been done before in more dangerous environments in the world! They should take a lesson from the Marine Corps:
ADAPT, IMPROVISE, and OVERCOME.
Thank god you guys will be able to open another starbucks and ann taylor loft once those dirty bus companies are forced into a less gentrified area.
In all seriousness, I think as long as you enforce the no idling for longer than x minutes, these buses should be okay. But then again I actually use them and really like them…(not)in my back yard.
As someone who works in the Woodies Building and commutes home from the Metrobus stop at 11th and G, I’ll be happy to see the NYC buses leave that corner. They sit there idling while everyone lines up, loads their baggage and gets in, making it impossible for the Metrobuses to pull over and causing huge backups for traffic on 11th. Whether L’Enfant is the right place for them, I don’t know, but they definitely need a different stop.
Have the buses moved to L’Enfant already? The BoltBus and Megabus websites still state 11th & G as their pick-up and drop-off points. If not, does anyone know when the move is effective? I’m traveling next weekend and would hate to be waiting in the wrong place. Thanks!
DC Government should realize that buses in general are a great source of transportation for many people traveling to the District for work, vacation, or just the weekend. The excessive idling law makes sense, but the tax imposed upon buses when they arrive in DC is outrageous…it costs $50 per tourbus when a group from out of town arrives in the District…why don’t people who drive their cars from out of town into DC have to pay a tax?
The Metrobus system is extremely inefficient, while certain routes run well and are heavily traveled, other routes are barely ridden. Metrobus needs to reorganize its schedule to fix the problem of three buses arriving at one stop at the same time, it causes more congestion downtown than taxis or regular cars.
>>“but the tax imposed upon buses when they arrive in DC is outrageous…it costs $50 per tourbus when a group from out of town arrives in the District”
Actually, if anything $50 per bus seems low to me rather than too high. That $1 per person doesn’t impact the overall price point for the rider much at all. It might impact the bus company’s margin a little if they haul in buses that are more than half empty. But the burden *should* be on them to run an efficient business.
Out of curiousity – does anyone know how the $50 tax is collected? I had never heard of that tax before.
While L’Enfant Plaza is less convenient for bus users living/staying in Penn Quarter, we can probably assume that most people are going elsewhere, or coming from elsewhere, so the good Metro connections at the new spot are important.
I do like the idea of street-side pick-up/drop-off and the fact that there are several location choices. If I had to go to the bus terminal I probably would not use these buses. Finally, this is the one good travel deal still out there. If we make the operators pay for the right to pick up passengers then users will suffer – and the people who use buses are often the ones who can least afford the increases!
In response to #26, there shouldn’t be a tax imposed on bus companies at all, their providing revenue to the DC economy by bringing in 50+ tourists at a time for hotels, restaurants, etc. The government should be encouraging tourbuses to visit the city instead of minivans and SUVs from the rest of the country.
Regarding the comment about other cities moving the Chinatown bus business to South Station, Market Street, etc. it is to enforce some regulation. In Massachusetts, there were several instances where the drivers were unlicensed, could not speak english, and the buses were not registered with DOT or maintained properly. In fact, buses have caught on fire, wheels have fallen off while in motion, among other things endangering passengers. While I am all for small businesses, having witnessed the effects of the bus picks and drops off in the Penn Quarter neighborhood for the past four years, particularly the block between 5th and 6th streets on H. Although a bargain, I truly feel that many of these buses are not safe.
GP Dweller: I couldn’t agree with you more, they are an unsafe operation by and large. There have been instances of drivers shooting one another in NYC and Boston due to competition and occassionally sketchy roadside stops along I-95. The sooner we move them out of Chinatown, it should also increase property value for everyone.
For a while I thought that long-blocked-off lane on 11th street next to the Woodies building was being blocked off in preparation for a bus depot lane. Even though I walk through this area 2x/day, I wouldn’t mind all the buses loading/unloading from that lane if it was dedicated for the purpose. What I DO mind is the bus drivers parking diagonally across both the far right and the middle lanes, forcing MetroBus drivers to veer into oncoming traffic just to get through the G Street light. (Seriously – how hard would it be to pull forward a little bit and back in straight so you’re only taking up one lane?!) I do think Metro Center is a better place for travelers to get on/off the bus than L’Enfant Plaza.
Some had noted the inconvenience of the Greyhound Station – it is definitely not a safe location for late night drop offs. I’ve read that it’s being redeveloped and the Greyhound buses are being moved to Union Station. Now that, DC, makes sense.
from http://dmv.dc.gov/info/trippermit.shtm
“Motor carriers, chartered buses (including chartered shuttle Buses), Trucks and other vehicles which fall under the definition of apportioned vehicles (see IRP section) but are not apportioned or fully registered in the District of Columbia, may obtain a trip permit for a $50 fee. The Trip Permit* is valid for six (6) days of travel within the District of Columbia. It must be maintained on the vehicle throughout the duration of travel in the District of Columbia. The trip permit is only to be used for the vehicle listed on the front of the permit.”
This was effective August, 2007. The permit is to be displayed in the front window of the bus. Local buses (like Dillion, New World, Martz, etc) are not included because they have special permitting.
I have been on plenty of coaches that have this permit. I have also been on plenty of coaches that have no permit. Amazingly enough, the most common enforcement is done by the Capitol Police. Tour groups have don’t have the proper documents get to spend an hour+ at the DMV on Half Street SW.
Finally, I agree about the very low rate. A $50 permit for six days for as many as 55 passengers is nothing. 15 cents per day per person!
In response to this comment “there shouldn’t be a tax imposed on bus companies at all, their providing revenue to the DC economy by bringing in 50+ tourists at a time for hotels, restaurants, etc.” I don’t know that the notion that tourists bring large amounts of revenue to DC is actually supported by facts. Many of them seem to stay in hotels in Virginia, patronize the free museums and attractions and spend relatively little money in the district. When you contrast this with the wear and tear that large tour buses inflict on streets, the pollution they spew into the air while idling waiting for their passengers and the disruptions to traffic they cause, it is not clear that this is a big financial gain for the city. While it is conventional wisdom that tourists bring in a large amount of revenue, conventional wisdom is often wrong.
If moving the bus stops to L’Enfant Plaza gives the drivers an alternate route, such as SE/SW Freeway and Kenilworth Ave, I’m all for it. Inbound NY Avenue seems to be backed-up 24/7 making the ride from Bladensburg Road into downtown excrutiatingly slow. I returned from NYC on Boltbus this Saturday and the trip from the old Hecht’s warehouse on NY Ave to the 395 turnoff near 3rd street was nearly 1/2 hour. From the look of the development going on in that area it’s only going to get worse.
These intercity buses represent the very last affordable mode of transportation along the I-95 corridor. It’s too expensive to drive or fly these days and Amtrak costs almost $200 round trip to New York. Of course, the cost is only part of the equation. More importantly, the “Chinatown” buses pick us up and drop us off in safe and convenient locations. The last thing we need is a seedy new bus terminal in a potentially unsafe and deserted part of town. The future of transportation should be more choice, not less! We shouldn’t shoehorn all the buses into one terminal any more than we should close down National and Dulles and force all air travel into BWI. Right now I choose which bus I want to take based on where it will pick me up or drop me off. When I get back home to DC at 1:00 am, I choose to get off in Dupont Circle, which is both safer and more convenient than Union Station or Southwest. Heck, most of the time the metro has already shut down by the time I arrive. At least in Dupont it is an affordable cab ride to other parts of NW! So, what’s wrong with giving us a few choices? Enforce the idling laws that are currently on the books and ticket buses that double park. Problem solved, no?
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This conversation has been had on several other blogs since last Wednesday. However I’m very eager to see what residents of our community have to say. We are the most impacted by the bus congestion. I’m a little tired of reading comments by new yorkers like Kevin Ricche acting like 10 minutes of inconvenience for them accompanied by reduced options for coffee are the end of the world and worth being colossally rude to those on the other side of the discussion.